SG's machine learning project takes on the 2020 draft

[hiramnicak]

I posted this on HFBoards, but I might as well post it here as well.

I’m in the camp that has a hard time giving Mitchell a second chance. My older brother is severely autistic, mentally disabled, and has had serious medical ailments he’s had to deal with his whole life. He’s 37 years old and is at about a second grade level mentally. He was severely bullied in school as a child by other kids and even some of the teachers to a lesser degree. He tried swim lessons until kids bullied him enough that he hated swimming. Bowling. Acting. Et cetera. Same story. Eventually, he gave up on not only his dreams but on people in general. He trusts almost no one, and while he is the sweetest person in my world, odds are slim you’d ever get a chance to know him because he wouldn’t let you in. It’s heart-breaking, but I don’t blame him for shutting the world out.

Do I believe in second chances? Sure, but they don’t come cheap. I think you have to go above and beyond to earn them, particularly in a job that sets someone up to be a role model to children. I will admit that my personal experience biases my thoughts, but he isn’t 14 anymore, and at 18, I’d want to hear his thoughts on the incident if I was considering drafting him. If he owns it, if he’s remorseful, et cetera, then great. The rumors going around suggest he isn’t, but I hope that’s not the case.

I think the fact that he wasn't drafted until the fourth round says a lot about what teams thought of him because he is definitely a second round talent. He was probably on a lot of DND lists. Everything I've read until this point, even from Miller's camp, indicates he hasn't changed. Arizona tried to cheat the draft and were sanctioned for it. Part of that sanctioning was not being allowed to interview players, so it's not really any surprise they're the ones who drafted him.

[jaster]

I'm having a hard time joining the sanctimonious harping about Mitchell Miller.
Yeah, what he did was fucking awful.
But he was 14.
The amount of maturing between 14 and 18 is immense.

.........

End of the day, if you interview the kid and you think he's grown up, why wouldn't you spend a 4th round pick on him?

The problem with this take is that when you dig into this story, the picture painted is not simply "14 year old did something stupid, learns from it, has matured, is remorseful, is forgiven by victim, and earns second chance."

In fact, there's nothing in this story to truly suggest he checks any of those boxes. And his transgression seems to have a fairly good likelihood of being symbolic of a deeper-seated issue, irrespective of maturity level. So, no, it's not about punishing him, it's about avoiding a problem child. It's about NHL clubs deciding it isn't worth the risk. Obviously Arizona took a different tact. We'll see how that plays out, both with the player and the PR. Maybe it'll be a win. Maybe not.

[Pop Zeus]

I'm having a hard time joining the sanctimonious harping about Mitchell Miller.
Yeah, what he did was fucking awful.
But he was 14.
The amount of maturing between 14 and 18 is immense.

.........

End of the day, if you interview the kid and you think he's grown up, why wouldn't you spend a 4th round pick on him?

The problem with this take is that when you dig into this story, the picture painted is not simply "14 year old did something stupid, learns from it, has matured, is remorseful, is forgiven by victim, and earns second chance."

In fact, there's nothing in this story to truly suggest he checks any of those boxes. And his transgression seems to have a fairly good likelihood of being symbolic of a deeper-seated issue, irrespective of maturity level. So, no, it's not about punishing him, it's about avoiding a problem child. It's about NHL clubs deciding it isn't worth the risk. Obviously Arizona took a different tact. We'll see how that plays out, both with the player and the PR. Maybe it'll be a win. Maybe not.

You act like Arizona was the only team that was going to draft him.
Which is like saying the Red Wings were the only team who decided Wallinder was worth the risk.
Most mocks I saw saw Miller going in round 5. He went in round 4. I've got no reason to believe other teams wouldn't have taken Miller if he'd fallen to them.

[jaster]

I'm having a hard time joining the sanctimonious harping about Mitchell Miller.
Yeah, what he did was fucking awful.
But he was 14.
The amount of maturing between 14 and 18 is immense.

.........

End of the day, if you interview the kid and you think he's grown up, why wouldn't you spend a 4th round pick on him?

The problem with this take is that when you dig into this story, the picture painted is not simply "14 year old did something stupid, learns from it, has matured, is remorseful, is forgiven by victim, and earns second chance."

In fact, there's nothing in this story to truly suggest he checks any of those boxes. And his transgression seems to have a fairly good likelihood of being symbolic of a deeper-seated issue, irrespective of maturity level. So, no, it's not about punishing him, it's about avoiding a problem child. It's about NHL clubs deciding it isn't worth the risk. Obviously Arizona took a different tact. We'll see how that plays out, both with the player and the PR. Maybe it'll be a win. Maybe not.

You act like Arizona was the only team that was going to draft him.
Which is like saying the Red Wings were the only team who decided Wallinder was worth the risk.
Most mocks I saw saw Miller going in round 5. He went in round 4. I've got no reason to believe other teams wouldn't have taken Miller if he'd fallen to them.

I’ve seen it mentioned a couple times that many teams had him labeled DND. Was Arizona the only org willing to draft him? I doubt it. Not sure how I implied that.

[_sg_]

I'm having a hard time joining the sanctimonious harping about Mitchell Miller.
Yeah, what he did was fucking awful.
But he was 14.
The amount of maturing between 14 and 18 is immense.
Who knows what kind of mental health help the guy received or is receiving as a result.

But there are a lot of actors just exploiting this bullshit to make themselves look good.
Starting with this putz.



End of the day, if you interview the kid and you think he's grown up, why wouldn't you spend a 4th round pick on him?
To punish him? Who say's he's not been punished?
For PR purposes?

There are a lot of snotty asshats in youth hockey. Upper-middle class alphas who nobody keeps in check.

I really don't get how anyone is served by contact a mentally challenged kid to interview him and his mom about watching the kid's bully get drafted by a pro hockey team.

It is annoying when people use these issues in that way, seems super common on social media.

I agree he's probably privileged and maybe grew up in some kind of consequence-free enabler bubble. It bothers me a bit that it got to the point of legal action. Seems like the first time you call a mentally challenged minority the n-word, something would happen such that that remains an isolated incident. Maybe that's too optimistic, idk. You grow a lot between 14 and 18 but it's not 100% automatic, those around you can help or hinder the process. Seems like he's still in the bubble.

[cska91]

Personally, I believe in second chances. Also, Akim Aliu sucks. Couldn't even hack it in the KHL.

[Machine]

Coyotes give up on Miller
https://www.nhl.com/coyotes/news/coyote ... -319543540

[Pop Zeus]

This is so fucking crazy.

[jaster]

The new regime is in place in Arizona and we're like "lol, we drafted who? Yeah, no."

Yeah, I believe in second chances as well. In general. But they have to be under the right conditions, and they have to be earned. This kid hasn't earned shit.

Also, "second chance" doesn't make any sense here because he hasn't even been given a first chance. Teams can choose how to build their organizations however they want, they owe nothing to any player outside their system. This isn't really even a "second chance" situation. This kid isn't entitled to be a a pro player.

Lastly, I heard it said on I think maybe the Chiclets podcast (?) that people within the Coyotes organization admitted they did not, in fact, do their due diligence on this kid. They were lazy about it. I don't think they even interviewed him (maybe they weren't allowed to because of their penalties?).

[holytoledo]

This kid is from Sylvania, OH, a Toledo suburb. If the Wings has drafted him in the 7th round and said he will start his pro career with the Walleye where he must first prove himself as a model citizen before we even worry about his on ice performance, I’d be ok with it.