GDT: Game 3: Columbus @ Detroit, 7:30 p.m.

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wings8
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Re: GDT: Game 3: Columbus @ Detroit, 7:30 p.m.

Post by wings8 »

Pop Zeus wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:37 pm ...............................
The problem is, then guys just face the boards because they know they can't be touched.
I don't think Raymond was hit that hard.
I don't think that play warranted a penalty.
Regardless, I like the way Bertuzzi responded.
I was at the game, and from where I was sitting saw the hit in details.
That was not the case of Raymond turning to face the boards before the hit. So, why even mentioning it here?
The hit was hard enough to break Raymon's shield. Definitely deserves a penalty, even major.


El Jefe
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Re: GDT: Game 3: Columbus @ Detroit, 7:30 p.m.

Post by El Jefe »

WingFanInA2 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:16 pm
Pop Zeus wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:37 pm
WingFanInA2 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:52 pm

I won't argue that, he is a rookie too though....and running a player into the boards when you are staring at their numbers should be an easy call to make for the refs.
The problem is, then guys just face the boards because they know they can't be touched.
I don't think Raymond was hit that hard.
I don't think that play warranted a penalty.
Regardless, I like the way Bertuzzi responded.
I hear you but I don't think that is what we are seeing. Sure, if a guy sees someone skating towards him, and turns to face the boards, then that is bullshit. But in this instance, Raymond's going for the puck. Should he be more aware? Probably. But that hit was pretty much text book boarding. I do think it deserves a penalty, especially with the league's emphasis to prevent head injuries. But they've always been inconsistent and vague on their enforcement so you really don't see a change in how players hit.

We may disagree on this, and that's fine, I know you have a different viewpoint, and you've been consistent. But I do agree I liked Bert's response.
I'm with WingsFaninA2 here. There is a common trope that says these guys turn to the boards to create these situations. Writers, commentators, forum members, it gets repeated in a lot of places. But I don't think there are too many players out there trying to draw something this way. PZ said:

"The problem is, then guys just face the boards because they know they can't be touched."

In reality, guys are getting creamed like that every night. I don't think there is a player out there that thinks they aren't going to get touched by turning toward the boards. There are just too many players in the NHL that won't pull up, and it's not like that isn't well known. I think the problem lies with the hitter, not the one being hit. And guys know they face an unacceptably high risk of missing a lot of time to maybe draw a penalty or protect the puck. And they know it is called inconsistently, too. It's a bad proposition from every angle.

If a guy is going to try to draw a penalty, he is much more likely going to do that with some bad acting on a feigned trip or hook or slah, and not try to draw it by getting knocked unconscious or suffering some other injury that will put him out a long time. Everybody knows they will be hit along the boards; I don't think it enters any player's mind that if I just turn toward the boards, I won't get touched.
Pop Zeus
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Re: GDT: Game 3: Columbus @ Detroit, 7:30 p.m.

Post by Pop Zeus »

This is not a trope. This is reality.

Watch that replay.
It wasn't even a dangerous hit anyway.
1. Raymond was standing still.
2. Raymond was right beside the boards -
They almost never call that unless a guy takes a real run at someone.
Now - if Raymond were skating toward the boards. And if he were 3-4 feet from the boards - the danger level changes a ton, because it means raymond is coming in fast and has room to lose control and go into the boards in dangerous fashion.


The other factor here is that Raymond's body goes limp.
You have to expect contact along the boards in Raymond's situation.
Facing the boards doesn't mean you won't get hit. Players get stapled to the boards all day.

I don't think the hit on Raymond was worth 2 minutes, let alone a major.

Over the last 2 games
Palat vs Rasmussen - 2-5 minutes
Joseph vs Larkin - 2 minutes
Whover vs Raymond - Notbhing
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hiramnicak
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Re: GDT: Game 3: Columbus @ Detroit, 7:30 p.m.

Post by hiramnicak »

Pop Zeus wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:37 pmWatch that replay.
It wasn't even a dangerous hit anyway.
1. Raymond was standing still.
2. Raymond was right beside the boards -
They almost never call that unless a guy takes a real run at someone.
Now - if Raymond were skating toward the boards. And if he were 3-4 feet from the boards - the danger level changes a ton, because it means raymond is coming in fast and has room to lose control and go into the boards in dangerous fashion.

The other factor here is that Raymond's body goes limp.
You have to expect contact along the boards in Raymond's situation.
Facing the boards doesn't mean you won't get hit. Players get stapled to the boards all day.
it was dangerous enough. it's a textbook penalty for a reason. when i played, any hit from behind was assessed a game misconduct regardless of the severity. a lot of guys had those "stop" patches sewn into the back of their sweaters to really drive it home. maybe this particular instance didn't look that dangerous to you, but penalties aren't strictly a byproduct of the danger involved. holding rarely ever leads to injury. you still go to the box for it. i think the danger involved is more important if you're assessing a major, a game misconduct, a suspension, or whatever retaliatory measures a team decides are necessary. two minutes was absolutely warranted.

blaming raymond for the play is like blaming mcdavid if he trips and falls when someone trips him on a breakaway. obviously, he expects it could happen, but his failure to stay on his feet does not negate the penalty (or penalty shot probably in that case). that said, i agree that raymond needs to learn how to take a hit. that's an entirely different subject from whether these hits warrant penalties, but the hits on zadina and on raymond wouldn't have looked so ugly if these guys were mitigating their risk better.
Pop Zeus wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:37 pmI don't think the hit on Raymond was worth 2 minutes, let alone a major.
i think that across the board, most of us just want to see some level of consistency in applying the rules. hits from behind like that are really unwarranted and are prohibited under the current rules. why have rules if you aren't going to enforce them?
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