Wings not qualifying Svechnikov

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holytoledo
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Re: Wings not qualifying Svechnikov

Post by holytoledo »

Slapper wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:15 pm Blahill didn’t hamper this guy or any ones progress, they just weren’t that good. Has any much heralded prospect that didn’t work out here go on and flourish anywhere else? No! They were over rated and hyped up by an organization that thought they’re were still as good at scouting as they were in the days of Hanken Anderson.
Hakan Is still very much around and seems to have more influence now than ever.

It’s pretty rare for a high pick to flame out in one org and then find success elsewhere. It happens, but those early development years are pretty damn crucial. The number of players that have gone backwards here: Sheahan, Jurco, Marchenko, AA, Larkin, Cholo, arguably Mantha and I’m sure a few others, should be alarming.


El Jefe
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Re: Wings not qualifying Svechnikov

Post by El Jefe »

holytoledo wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:07 pm
Slapper wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:15 pm Blahill didn’t hamper this guy or any ones progress, they just weren’t that good. Has any much heralded prospect that didn’t work out here go on and flourish anywhere else? No! They were over rated and hyped up by an organization that thought they’re were still as good at scouting as they were in the days of Hanken Anderson.
Hakan Is still very much around and seems to have more influence now than ever.

It’s pretty rare for a high pick to flame out in one org and then find success elsewhere. It happens, but those early development years are pretty damn crucial. The number of players that have gone backwards here: Sheahan, Jurco, Marchenko, AA, Larkin, Cholo, arguably Mantha and I’m sure a few others, should be alarming.
You could add Brendan Smith and Jakub Kindl to that list.
holytoledo
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Re: Wings not qualifying Svechnikov

Post by holytoledo »

El Jefe wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:00 am
holytoledo wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:07 pm
Slapper wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:15 pm Blahill didn’t hamper this guy or any ones progress, they just weren’t that good. Has any much heralded prospect that didn’t work out here go on and flourish anywhere else? No! They were over rated and hyped up by an organization that thought they’re were still as good at scouting as they were in the days of Hanken Anderson.
Hakan Is still very much around and seems to have more influence now than ever.

It’s pretty rare for a high pick to flame out in one org and then find success elsewhere. It happens, but those early development years are pretty damn crucial. The number of players that have gone backwards here: Sheahan, Jurco, Marchenko, AA, Larkin, Cholo, arguably Mantha and I’m sure a few others, should be alarming.
You could add Brendan Smith and Jakub Kindl to that list.
And Zadina appears to be in danger as well, in his case it’s more just not developing as expected vs regression.
wyrrlen
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Re: Wings not qualifying Svechnikov

Post by wyrrlen »

and Landon Ferraro.
El Jefe
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Re: Wings not qualifying Svechnikov

Post by El Jefe »

holytoledo wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:33 am
El Jefe wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:00 am
holytoledo wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:07 pm

Hakan Is still very much around and seems to have more influence now than ever.

It’s pretty rare for a high pick to flame out in one org and then find success elsewhere. It happens, but those early development years are pretty damn crucial. The number of players that have gone backwards here: Sheahan, Jurco, Marchenko, AA, Larkin, Cholo, arguably Mantha and I’m sure a few others, should be alarming.
You could add Brendan Smith and Jakub Kindl to that list.
And Zadina appears to be in danger as well, in his case it’s more just not developing as expected vs regression.
I think one of Stevie's most important tasks is fixing the developmental systems. How did it go so far south? Was it the overripe philosophy, which might be a euphemism for, "We have no idea WTF we're doing, so we keep them in the minors for a long time and see who gets good on their own"?
holytoledo
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Re: Wings not qualifying Svechnikov

Post by holytoledo »

wyrrlen wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:10 am and Landon Ferraro.
That's kind of the difficulty of assessing stuff like this. There's plenty of guys like Ferraro, Emmerton, Mursak, Pulkinnen, Andersson that got their shot here and never really made anything of it, and went elsewhere and never did either. Maybe their shot came too early, or too late, wasn't long enough, their deployment was wrong for their skillsets, or else they just didn't have it. We've got plenty of those skeletons in our closet.

I think those cases are different than a guy like Sheahan who goes for 24 points in 42 games, follows it up with 36 in 79 and even provides some secondary playoff scoring and then just regresses into hot garbage. Then there's a guy like Kindl who looks enough like he's gonna develop into a top 4 d-man that he gets a 4 year deal that it's pretty much unanimous is a great deal for the club and before he can play that our he regresses to the point where he's dumped for a 6th or 7th round pick and is out of the league before he's 30.

Then there's guys like Jurco and Smith that were drafted to be offensive players, showed a lot of promise for being offensive contributors at the NHL level, and Mike Babcock proceeds to coach the skill right out of them.

Blash seems to be on the same path. Larkin's production is down. Cholo couldn't produce in his system. Zadina hasn't lived up to his expectations so far and now he wants to make a 200 ft player out of Vrana.

I guess if we're gonna spend all of our top draft picks on 6'4" - 6-5" defensemen and a 6'6" goalie then we might as well just accept the goal here is to win games 1-0. I'm not watching very much of that.
dcz28
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Re: Wings not qualifying Svechnikov

Post by dcz28 »

holytoledo wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:39 pm
wyrrlen wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:10 am and Landon Ferraro.
That's kind of the difficulty of assessing stuff like this. There's plenty of guys like Ferraro, Emmerton, Mursak, Pulkinnen, Andersson that got their shot here and never really made anything of it, and went elsewhere and never did either. Maybe their shot came too early, or too late, wasn't long enough, their deployment was wrong for their skillsets, or else they just didn't have it. We've got plenty of those skeletons in our closet.

I think those cases are different than a guy like Sheahan who goes for 24 points in 42 games, follows it up with 36 in 79 and even provides some secondary playoff scoring and then just regresses into hot garbage. Then there's a guy like Kindl who looks enough like he's gonna develop into a top 4 d-man that he gets a 4 year deal that it's pretty much unanimous is a great deal for the club and before he can play that our he regresses to the point where he's dumped for a 6th or 7th round pick and is out of the league before he's 30.

Then there's guys like Jurco and Smith that were drafted to be offensive players, showed a lot of promise for being offensive contributors at the NHL level, and Mike Babcock proceeds to coach the skill right out of them.

Blash seems to be on the same path. Larkin's production is down. Cholo couldn't produce in his system. Zadina hasn't lived up to his expectations so far and now he wants to make a 200 ft player out of Vrana.

I guess if we're gonna spend all of our top draft picks on 6'4" - 6-5" defensemen and a 6'6" goalie then we might as well just accept the goal here is to win games 1-0. I'm not watching very much of that.
I've said it many times in the past how much i disliked how the Wings wanted every draft picks/prospects to be two way players even if they were drafted for their offensive game. It seemed as if some of those prospects started focusing so much on defense that their offense became non existent. Let the damn kids play to their strengths (the reason they were drafted) and gain confidence instead of trying to force them early to be 200 foot players and destroying their entire game including the reason why you drafted them to begin with.

I'm not saying they shouldn't work on their defense at all but let them gain confidence in what they are good at (offense) at each new level before having them start working on playing better defense. What would have happened to Yzerman if after being drafted the Wings coach would be like "focus on your defensive game and don't worry about offense"? Yzerman might have still been a top player or it could have totally fucked with his game and confidence and made him worst. How long did it take before Yzerman was asked to be a 200 foot player...years.

Let the kids play their game to their strengths and once they have confidence in that then you can start them on being better defensively. If they can't get their offense going in the AHL/NHL then that player needs to make decision to either work harder, re-invent their game (Dan Cleary) or be a bust and find another league to play in. Blashill has turned into this everyone needs to be a 200 foot player type of coach so they can stay in games or win by one goal or lose by 1 or 2. He's not doing it for the players, he's doing it to try and save his own ass. This is why i wish Yzerman would have fired his ass by now.
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Re: Wings not qualifying Svechnikov

Post by El Jefe »

dcz28 wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:26 pm
holytoledo wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:39 pm
wyrrlen wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:10 am and Landon Ferraro.
That's kind of the difficulty of assessing stuff like this. There's plenty of guys like Ferraro, Emmerton, Mursak, Pulkinnen, Andersson that got their shot here and never really made anything of it, and went elsewhere and never did either. Maybe their shot came too early, or too late, wasn't long enough, their deployment was wrong for their skillsets, or else they just didn't have it. We've got plenty of those skeletons in our closet.

I think those cases are different than a guy like Sheahan who goes for 24 points in 42 games, follows it up with 36 in 79 and even provides some secondary playoff scoring and then just regresses into hot garbage. Then there's a guy like Kindl who looks enough like he's gonna develop into a top 4 d-man that he gets a 4 year deal that it's pretty much unanimous is a great deal for the club and before he can play that our he regresses to the point where he's dumped for a 6th or 7th round pick and is out of the league before he's 30.

Then there's guys like Jurco and Smith that were drafted to be offensive players, showed a lot of promise for being offensive contributors at the NHL level, and Mike Babcock proceeds to coach the skill right out of them.

Blash seems to be on the same path. Larkin's production is down. Cholo couldn't produce in his system. Zadina hasn't lived up to his expectations so far and now he wants to make a 200 ft player out of Vrana.

I guess if we're gonna spend all of our top draft picks on 6'4" - 6-5" defensemen and a 6'6" goalie then we might as well just accept the goal here is to win games 1-0. I'm not watching very much of that.
I've said it many times in the past how much i disliked how the Wings wanted every draft picks/prospects to be two way players even if they were drafted for their offensive game. It seemed as if some of those prospects started focusing so much on defense that their offense became non existent. Let the damn kids play to their strengths (the reason they were drafted) and gain confidence instead of trying to force them early to be 200 foot players and destroying their entire game including the reason why you drafted them to begin with.

I'm not saying they shouldn't work on their defense at all but let them gain confidence in what they are good at (offense) at each new level before having them start working on playing better defense. What would have happened to Yzerman if after being drafted the Wings coach would be like "focus on your defensive game and don't worry about offense"? Yzerman might have still been a top player or it could have totally fucked with his game and confidence and made him worst. How long did it take before Yzerman was asked to be a 200 foot player...years.

Let the kids play their game to their strengths and once they have confidence in that then you can start them on being better defensively. If they can't get their offense going in the AHL/NHL then that player needs to make decision to either work harder, re-invent their game (Dan Cleary) or be a bust and find another league to play in. Blashill has turned into this everyone needs to be a 200 foot player type of coach so they can stay in games or win by one goal or lose by 1 or 2. He's not doing it for the players, he's doing it to try and save his own ass. This is why i wish Yzerman would have fired his ass by now.
I think Mantha fell prey to this, as well. The organ-I-zation, and Blashill in particular, kept talking about how they wanted Mantha to develop into a net-front player, to go to the hard areas. But that's not Mantha's strength, that's not how he scores, that's not how lit up the junior leagues. Since Tomas Holmstrom's time, the Wings have tried to turn every player over 6' into a Holmstrom clone, and every player under 6' into a 200' player. Let those ponies run, boys!!
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Re: Wings not qualifying Svechnikov

Post by Pop Zeus »

thanson
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Re: Wings not qualifying Svechnikov

Post by thanson »

Pop Zeus wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:01 pm https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/je ... rest-deal/
Jets are interested.
I honestly thought it was a no-brainer that he would sign with Carolina and join his brother.
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